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 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion

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Beckstle
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PostSubject: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 2:29 am

Did you love it? Did you hate it? Or was it somewhere in between? (I LOOOOVED it, but that could just be me.) Here's where you can post your thoughts on KillShot. Come on, inquiring mind wanna know! happy
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tolkeinite

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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 1:00 pm

I think the episode, standing alone was pretty well-made; the case was good, the story was compelling, and the characters were (mostly) believable. That being said, I have two concerns. The part at the end with Becket rushing in to get the sniper and then going straight to the scar-sharing scene kind of made me go "WTH" (don't get me wrong, I have nothing against seeing Katic take her shirt off but it's not the most believable sequence of events), but I can see that as another manifestation of her PTSD.

What troubled me a little more was the end scene where the psychologist essentially told Beckett to forget about getting justice for her mother, and Beckett just accepted that. Her quest for justice and her refusal to let go, even against all odds, is the essence of Beckett's character, it's what made her "extraordinary" in Castle's terms. Now I'm afraid the writers will try to take that away from her (in the name of "character growth) and ruin the character and the show. I'm not saying the show is doomed already, or even that having Beckett let go of her mother's murder a little bit is automatically a bad thing; I just believe (maybe against popular wisdom) that if you're afraid of something you should put it out there and it will be less frightening. In any case I will reserve judgement on this episode until I see where the story arc they opened up leads.

P.S. I was a huge Bones shipper, and have had to abandon that show after those characters were destroyed, so I might be worried about thins that really aren't there because of the BONES debacle. (sort of my own hypervigilance brought on by PTSD). Wink
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fairytales
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 2:48 pm

This episode kind of lost me the moment we saw Becket's scar. I'm no doctor but I have seen scars from people who've gone through open heart surgery. They had her chest cut open trying to stop major bleeding ... yet, thanks to the shallowness of Hollywood, Becket has a small little round scar that barely mars anything. And she's upset over it. I was all prepared to give her a pass because I understand that seeing any scar, little or big, related to a traumatic event would invoke strong reactions... but the scar isn't visible fully clothed and is just a little round mark that SHOULD be a lot bigger, therefore making me feel a little less sympathetic because I'm annoyed the scar isn't accurate. :/ Which I know isn't Beckett's fault or Stana's. I just wish they would have given the character a scar worthy of what happened to her. But oh no, we can't mar a beautiful thin body... It just aggravated me. What else is new?

I understand in television you have to move and switch gears a lot faster because of the time given... so the moment at the end with the sniper I was wondering if it was justified or if they were just trying to up the sexual content. I might have given this a pass if the sniper had lived... and yes, it might be a manifestation of the PTSD.... I dunno.

I'm also wondering if she's really going to let go of getting justice for her mother. I think maybe once she finds out about the file and all the information it holds, she'll realize she wasn't as ready to let go as she thought.

I am also really on the fence with how little Castle was physically there to help her through this. I would have loved for him to pay another one of his "I'm sleeping on the couch because you're in trouble" calls. Then again, Beckett's a strong woman who had to pull through this on her own and Castle knows that. But the shipper in me wanted a scene with them, alone. Especially the moment she ran off when they entered that building where the conference was being held. I just felt like someone should have checked on her...

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dstorm
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 3:08 pm

fairytales wrote:
This episode kind of lost me the moment we saw Becket's scar. I'm no doctor but I have seen scars from people who've gone through open heart surgery. They had her chest cut open trying to stop major bleeding ... yet, thanks to the shallowness of Hollywood, Becket has a small little round scar that barely mars anything. And she's upset over it. I was all prepared to give her a pass because I understand that seeing any scar, little or big, related to a traumatic event would invoke strong reactions... but the scar isn't visible fully clothed and is just a little round mark that SHOULD be a lot bigger, therefore making me feel a little less sympathetic because I'm annoyed the scar isn't accurate. :/ Which I know isn't Beckett's fault or Stana's. I just wish they would have given the character a scar worthy of what happened to her. But oh no, we can't mar a beautiful thin body... It just aggravated me. What else is new?


Actually she has two scars... She has a huge scar on the side where Josh cut into her in Rise to begin the operation. The other scar which is smaller is where the bullet went through. This is the one they focus on because it was similar to that of the first victim.

Here is the youtube.. Shot of the side scar is around the 3 to 5 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNNAP1yO_jI
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fairytales
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 3:44 pm

I didn't see the side scar and I STILL can't see it but now that you say something, I see her touching it.

I still think the one on her chest should be bigger. They had her chest cut open.

Hm, I suppose you could argue that she has this type of scar:
The second type of open heart surgery scars: The thoracotomy scar which is a result from an incision under the arm from the back to the side of the chest.

Which I just thought of doing a google search on... thinking maybe there are two different scars for *open heart surgery* I remember them cutting into the side of her for the tube which I figured would be a different scar .. but maybe not. Whatever Razz I am no expert but I expected to see a much bigger scar on her chest.

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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 5:26 pm

First and foremost, WELCOME Tolkeinite!!! 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion 936075699 You are the 100th member!!! So, a bit of a celebration is in order:

happy

'Kay, now, back to discussing KillShot. Razz
Yeah, the scar bothered me, too. Thank you dstorm for mentioning and posting the video clip. Like Fairytales, I didn't see it in the clip, but see her touching it. Also, thanks Fairytales for looking up that second kind of heart surgery. When I think back to RISE, yes, the slice open IS along the side, not down the chest, which tells me they DID think about the scaring issue beforehand. (Gosh, a show that THINKS THINGS THROUGH! shock ) While I was watching the show though, after the initial shock of "that's it" about the scar, ( noticed that Kate keep referring to SCARS, not "The scar" which made me think that there was another scar we just hadn't seen yet. This explains the referencing well.

The showing of the scar to the perp was an interesting moment. I saw it as her trying to make his actions seem more real to him, and her words seemed to back this up. The idea that NO ONE has a perfect life, even if it seems that way on the outside, look at me, I've been scarred - and by someone like you.

I didn't take Kate's final therapy scene as her giving up completely on her mother's case. She talked about her becoming a cop because of her mom's case, and how all of her choices have been driven by what happened to her mom. I felt THAT is was what she was letting go of - making her decisions based on that - in particular, her decision to put her desire to pursue a relationship with Castle. Whether her mother's murder is solved or not, she has to make choices in her life based on more than that desire. She is more than just a woman seeking justice for her mom - or at least she wants to be that. For me, that means expanding who she is.

I can't help but wonder how this might effect her relationship with Gates. Gates is a career cop. Beckett was driven to make detective so that she could work on her mom's case and help families of the victims not go throught what she has with her mom's murder being unsolved. I don't think she's given alot of thought about her "career" and wonder if having Gates around might have her thinking about it...like, doesnshe always want to be running around in the field where she can be shot at? The whole, "how do do balance this kind of job with a husband and child thing has come up before with Special Agent Shaw. Gates is also married with kids. Between the stuff with Alexis, any desires she might have for kids, the question of how does one balance these desires has to be a real question, one she really hasn't comtemplated much because she's never let herself go there. With Shaw and Gates she's got two different examples of how it can be handled - but Gates is right there. I think it would be great if in allowing herself to get involved with Castle this kind of stuff comes up for her and is REALLY explored. It's a question most A driven career women deal with every day. It's not just, fall in bed, get pregnant and let you're sex life dictate your decisions. There's alot of thought-process and talking things out with your partner and others involved...

So overall I really loved this episode. Despite my being jarred at first by the scar, because of the WRITTEN mentions of more than one scar I was able to just go with the rest. Jon Huertas's work was also outstanding, and really cemented the brother-sister thing between her and Javier. Really just a great scene. Also, that ending when Esposito takes the guy out. The two share that look, and just WOW. On so many levels, WOW. Just the symbolism of a sniper SAVING her life was huge, wrapping back to Javier's point that it's not the gun, it's the person behind it, which wraps back to her drilling of the sniper serviceman - which really was over the line.

Going back to THAT, I thought it was cool how Beckett was able to dial back with Esposito's help and not stay with the PTSD demonizing of the sniper. Her being to connect with him feeling damaged and not just a killer who loves killing was so well written and weaved through the episode. Demonizing does not help catch bad guys seemed to be another message in this episode.


OKAY, I've been talking long enough. NEXT! happy

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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 7:49 pm

Riiiiight.

I loved the episode.
It wielded a baseball bat and beat me into submission and the tears shed clutched at my heart.

The scene with the scars didn't disappoint or throw me at all.
It was clear from RISE that the incision made with the scalpel was in Kate's side (in Kill Shot you can see her run her fingers over it) it followed the slightly diagonal spacing between the ribs, through the intercostal muscle and then in with the rib spreaders. (Rather than through the sternum- Which, if numerous episodes of ER are to be believed, needs that buzzing vibrating saw to get through it (with bone crunching sound effects.)

The actual gun shot wound is only an entry wound (there was no exit wound- They are always larger and messier as the bullet deforms from its aerodynamic shape on its trajectory through the body.) Entry wounds are smaller due to the high speed entry with the bullet in its most aerodynamic form. (Ever watched an episode of CSI where they shoot at the head/thorax of a model made of ballistics gel? The bullet goes in like a hot knife through butter, it's only as it slices through your insides and explodes out the other side that the main damage is done. Bullet wounds are like icebergs...there's more going on beneath the surface. Much like our dear Beckett.)

The end scene with Dr Burke didn't phase me either.

Kate is a woman who has been driven to do everything she has attained in life by tragedy.

She didn't become a cop from the positive notion of always aspiring to be in the police force. She came at it from the negative aspect of her mother’s murder.

Her collage education changed cause, changed collage and changed cities all due to her mother’s death.

Her father's struggle with the bottle, her struggle with her father's addiction all due to her mother's death.

The push, the drive, the striving within her time in the police force, her rank as detective (her attaining that rank at such a young age) all that achievement fuelled by one woman’s death.

That drive that has gained her the position in the force has also blinded her to the other aspects of life. The men she "loved" (in as much love as someone can give/receive when one is only giving half of themselves) they only ever had half a Beckett...or they had the Beckett but not the full Kate.

There has been a lot of darkness in Kate Beckett's life and I think that darkness has defined her. I see nothing wrong in her reaching for a candle.

A life spent living in the past is a future wasted.

To a certain extent Johanna Beckett's death has been the steel rod in Beckett's backbone and also her crutch to lean on. She can take the strength (that makes her extraordinary...Her weaknesses make her extraordinary as well...) that positive aspect but take away the constant weight of that ring around her neck.

Liberation does not mean forgetting the past or giving up on the hope of justice...But Kate Beckett can not (& could not) keep the vice like grip on her mothers case forever. A continuation in this vein would have had only two possible outcomes: Never getting to the bottom of the case, waking up to find life has past you by and you have no one...or...Finally solving the case, realising that the main driving force in your life has gone and wondering what to do now?

There is a difference in something being a part of your life and having it define all aspects of your family, career, happiness and companionship for the past twelve years.

I'm sure Johanna Beckett wouldn't feel at all let down with watching her daughter take a deep breath and embrace all the joy life has to offer. That out of the darkness of death there can be the light of love.


Shutting up. shock
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 8:34 pm

Awwww.....Tink, you move me to tears with your eloquence - and yet you allow people think you just do comedy. (Been holding out on folks I see Very Happy) Then there's the impressive use of medical jargon...the impressive attention to detail.... You're just all-around brilliant, lady. love

Totally agree with you post. The scar jarred me in the moment - because, I DIDN'T think back to how they went in for surgery. ( The bullet-wound thing I got, it was the heart surgery scar I was expecting), but was able to let it go pretty quickly - especially after the FIRST "scars" comment. (There's like 3 times she says it) I loved everything else.

One thing I didn't talk about was how absolutely riveted I was by the case itself. Maybe because I LIVE in New York City, but the scenario was SO plausible it was SCARY. I thought it also brought home how fragile life is, how it can change in a moment. They didn't minimize the losses or the gravity of the situation. It wasn't just, "oh let's create a scenario so Beckett can have a catharsis about her shooting."
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeTue Nov 22, 2011 9:29 pm

Beckstle wrote:
Awwww.....Tink, you move me to tears with your eloquence - and yet you allow people think you just do comedy. (Been holding out on folks I see Very Happy) Then there's the impressive use of medical jargon...the impressive attention to detail.... You're just all-around brilliant, lady. love

shock
Nah...I really DO just do comedy!

(With the occasional flashback to my love for my English Literature class in school...apart from that...just the funny! happy )

(Medical jargon...seriously ER!!! Loved that show!)
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2011 2:15 pm

Here's a better look at that side scar! (LOOOVE Tumblr! Very Happy) It's a big ole angry raised slash of red along her side.
tumblr/kate's scar
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2011 2:50 pm

I was thinking about this again today.

You know when they talk about the stages of grief? Well, I don't think Beckett ever really reached acceptance.

Her PTSD and her scars are physical...something she has no control over. I thought that it was fitting that Beckett was talking to the sniper from the floor (a lower position) and offered up her hidden scars (her physical and emotional.) She was tyring to reason with him from a position of weakness and with her flaws not her strengths. It was in keeping with Esposito's advice to turn the weakness into a strength.

The PTSD is the same as her mother's death...Beckett deals with trauma in the same way. Fight it, deny it, run from it and try to conquer it. There is never a moment of acceptance (NOT RESIGNATION) It is only through embracing the PTSD that she is able to find some kind of equilibrium. This could also be said for her mother's case.

How fitting as well that Castle should be as big of an influence now as he has been in the past. It was Castle's books that helped Beckett after her mother's death...and because of him she sees the life she could have, the man she could love and the man that could (does) love her in return. Castle is also here for this later (I won't say final...yet) part of Johanna Beckett's case. His words pulled her out and his love pushes her forward.

Castle makes Beckett want to become the best version of herself that she can. Beckett makes Castle want to be a better man. They both find remarkable qualities in the other person. When these two get together... shock

One final thought from today...Considering that coffee is affection (kisses)...Castle said to Beckett that she owed him about 100 cups of coffee. Is that subtext for I've been offering up all this coffee (support/affection) to you for all this time...now it's Beckett's turn to give Castle some sign of love *cough* I mean coffee.
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2011 7:15 pm

[quote="TinkonBrink"]I
The PTSD is the same as her mother's death...Beckett deals with trauma in the same way. Fight it, deny it, run from it and try to conquer it. There is never a moment of acceptance (NOT RESIGNATION) It is only through embracing the PTSD that she is able to find some kind of equilibrium. This could also be said for her mother's case

That's the whole point, acceptance of injustice is not in Beckett's nature, its not who she is.

Almost everyone's been through some kind of trauma in their lives. Most people get over difficult, painful things by accepting them, setting them to one side and then just going on with their NORMAL lives. For instance that's how Esposito deals with his trauma, and with the murders he investigates. Becket refuses to simply accept injustice as something beyond her control and is willing to stay up into the night, try crazy things, take crazy risks, do what most people are unwilling/unable to do in order to set things right. Castle is much the same way, that's what makes them both EXTRORDINARY and what makes them perfect for each other. The best moments between them are when the work-day is over but one of them can't let go of the case, and so he/she shows up at the other's house or at the precinct in the middle of the night, and finds the other one has been working just as relentlessly. And they willl develop some crazy, brilliant theory and rush off and solve the case all while Ryan, Esposito, or Laney are standing there with that stunned "how do they do that?" look (and the "why don't they just kiss?" smile) on their faces.
And Ryan and Esposito don't get left in the dust becasue they didn't want to solve the case, but because after working all day long and reaching a dead end they decided to let go.
Beckett DOESN'T LET GO. If she can't get the truth or find justice, she doesn't accept that situation, and she does not leave it and go back to normal, she keeps going until she gets answers, and that mustn't change. She can't let her mother down any more than she can let down any other victim or their familly, that's notd Kate Beckett.
Of Course just because she won't stop looking for the truth doesn't mean she has to hurt inside and deny herself happiness until she gets answers, that's pretty much what Castle has been trying to show her. Yet by the same token, just because she accepts the joys of life does not mean she can accept not catching her mother's killer, or the pepetrator of any other murder she is assigned by any means necessary.

Again, I'm not saying the episode was bad or the show is ruined; I'm just saying that given the kind of character Beckett is, her "acceptance" that she can't catch a killer is a red flag.
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2011 8:50 pm

Blimey!
Look at this!
Actual discussion in the discussion thread love

tolkeinite?

I don't see Beckett's persistence on ANY case going away any time soon. Sometimes I think she fights so hard to close cases to give other people the closure she hasn't had. I don't see her dropping her mother's case or forgetting about it either. I don't think she has REALLY dealt with it. When I say she hasn't found acceptance I don't mean that she should just shrug her shoulders, take off her mother's ring and forget about it...I don't mean that she should accept defeat. That's not Beckett at all.

Beckett has always worked through her mother's case alone...Castle came in and dug around and circumstances have had both of them working some aspect of the case. When she was shot the three men in her life took up the sword...until Beckett got back and went at it like a bull in a china shop.

I don't see her giving up on bringing those responsible to justice.

Unbeknownst to Beckett (at the present) Castle is working her mother's case ALONE (in another reversal/mirroring of story and character that Castle does so well)

It was only when Esposito came and offered her the tools to cope (and accept) her PTSD that she was able to come to terms with it...I think once the initial bomb has dropped and Castle's secret is out of the bag...he could be the one to help her like Esposito. It might take the focused energies of BOTH of them, working together, with Beckett not disappearing down the rabbit hole, to crack it wide open. The only problem she would face then would be if the tip of this pyramid of money, lies and murder is not taken out/down Castle's life could be in danger. He fears losing her again but she could actually loose him. (Heat Rises?)

I also have to say congratulations on being our 100th member happy and stopping by to actually chat with us here at Castle's Old Haunt happy
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeWed Nov 23, 2011 10:10 pm

tolkeinite wrote:
TinkonBrink wrote:
I
The PTSD is the same as her mother's death...Beckett deals with trauma in the same way. Fight it, deny it, run from it and try to conquer it. There is never a moment of acceptance (NOT RESIGNATION) It is only through embracing the PTSD that she is able to find some kind of equilibrium. This could also be said for her mother's case

That's the whole point, acceptance of injustice is not in Beckett's nature, its not who she is.

Almost everyone's been through some kind of trauma in their lives. Most people get over difficult, painful things by accepting them, setting them to one side and then just going on with their NORMAL lives. For instance that's how Esposito deals with his trauma, and with the murders he investigates. Becket refuses to simply accept injustice as something beyond her control and is willing to stay up into the night, try crazy things, take crazy risks, do what most people are unwilling/unable to do in order to set things right. Castle is much the same way, that's what makes them both EXTRORDINARY and what makes them perfect for each other. The best moments between them are when the work-day is over but one of them can't let go of the case, and so he/she shows up at the other's house or at the precinct in the middle of the night, and finds the other one has been working just as relentlessly. And they willl develop some crazy, brilliant theory and rush off and solve the case all while Ryan, Esposito, or Laney are standing there with that stunned "how do they do that?" look (and the "why don't they just kiss?" smile) on their faces.

And Ryan and Esposito don't get left in the dust becasue they didn't want to solve the case, but because after working all day long and reaching a dead end they decided to let go.
Beckett DOESN'T LET GO. If she can't get the truth or find justice, she doesn't accept that situation, and she does not leave it and go back to normal, she keeps going until she gets answers, and that mustn't change. She can't let her mother down any more than she can let down any other victim or their familly, that's notd Kate Beckett.
Of Course just because she won't stop looking for the truth doesn't mean she has to hurt inside and deny herself happiness until she gets answers, that's pretty much what Castle has been trying to show her. Yet by the same token, just because she accepts the joys of life does not mean she can accept not catching her mother's killer, or the pepetrator of any other murder she is assigned by any means necessary.

Again, I'm not saying the episode was bad or the show is ruined; I'm just saying that given the kind of character Beckett is, her "acceptance" that she can't catch a killer is a red flag.
First, I just want to say I LOVE your posting! Even though I disagree with most of it. I am PASSIONATE about this show, and it's great reading posts that share that passion for Castle! (The show, passion for the character is also highly desirable, as he is highly desirable because he so ruggedly handsome - damn-it, I'm losing focus again! "Evermind, I'm sure people know what I mean. Embarassed )

Why I disagree with this being a red flag has alot to do with why I love this show. It has character development. Not, wham, out-of-nowhere changes when it's convenient, but slow, real personal growth and expansion within the character.

Along those lines, I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of Esposito. I don't think we have enough information on him to make that leap. It could very well be that the only thing that keeps him from going off the deep end and becoming some type of vigilante sniper is the work he does at the 12th.

Kate Beckett made decisions in her life at a time of serious trauma, at a time when she was in college trying to figure out who she was....Is she relentless because she can't stand injustice, or is she relentless because every unsolved case reopens the wound of her mother's death? Is it justice for others that drives her, or is it unwillingness to face her losses? Is every solved case a way for her to imagine a different outcome for herself, and does this relentlessness always serve the case? In THIS episode, it didn't. She went overboard in her interrogation of the former military sniper. It wasn't until she TOOK A STEP BACK from the case that she was able to do what was necessary to crack it. Defense mechanisms serve a person well...until they no longer do. There comes a point where the defenses become a hinderance to achieving what the goal was in the first place. Kate Beckett has not wanted to face the pain and loss of her mother's senseless murder. It has served her well in that she HAS become an amazing police detective. It's also put her in an emotional holding pattern unwilling to risk the emotional devastation her mother's death created in her life - in part because she has no sense of having survived it. She's never let herself truly accept the idea that her mother was murdered and she doesn't know why. Without that kind of acceptance she can't know that she actually IS strong enough to survive that loss.

Until Beckett can accept this part of her life, accept that she cannot control the outcome of solving her mother's case, she's stuck in a holding pattern that ultimately puts her in direct opposition to what she wants: to solve her mother's case. It's a proven fact that the truly brilliant inspired ideas only occur once you've done a certain amount of thinking about the problem, and then LET IT GO for a while. As I mentioned before, Beckett couldn't crack the sniper case until she had broken down and Esposito helped her to STEP BACK. She said that she was "damaged goods" in regards to her shooting, but it goes deeper than that. In accepting that she "may not ever" solve her mom's case, I think she's actually opening the door to it being more likely to occur.

THIS, is why I think Andrew Marlowe is brilliant. His characters are so REAL, and human. Having Beckett stay exactly the same...in my opinion (IMO) she'd be a stunted character and Castle would be more like a sitcom in it's structure. I think where she is right now opens the door for her to become a more expansive character, and create more conflict for her, not less.

With Beckett's walls up, her choices are limited. It's why she's never let anyone fully in - she didn't have a choice, it was her wiring. Castle has been messing around with her wiring, to the point that she now wants to re-wire the whole place. This, I think, is the kind of stuff that will continue to make the show interesting. Kate's passion for justice IS a PART of her. I can't see her giving it up. The fallacy in her thinking prior to this was that once she solved her mother's murder, she'd be open and ready for a relationship. I think her therapies would disagree, saying that until she deals with what actually happened, and gains a better understanding of WHO SHE IS regardless, the solving of that case won't change a darn thing.

Which brings me back to my earlier post about Jordan Shaw and Victoria Gates. Both have impressive law enforcement careers, but have approached them differently. Shaw was clearly still passionate and relentless about her work, and was still in the field, AND was married with a kid. Gates has gone administrative, but in the last couple of episodes has shown signs that she's had a passion for dectective work at some point in her career. Beckett has to figure out what she wants her path to be. Certainly that's a theme to be played with and worked on - even when she and Castle get romantically involved.

I do think I know your fear though. Let's just say don't think Marlowe has any intention of Beckett secretly sleep with Castle, pop up pregnant and become a shell of her former brillant self. Wink
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Beckstle
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeThu Nov 24, 2011 2:02 am

TinkonBrink wrote:
Blimey!
Look at this!
Actual discussion in the discussion thread love

tolkeinite?

I don't see Beckett's persistence on ANY case going away any time soon. Sometimes I think she fights so hard to close cases to give other people the closure she hasn't had. I don't see her dropping her mother's case or forgetting about it either. I don't think she has REALLY dealt with it. When I say she hasn't found acceptance I don't mean that she should just shrug her shoulders, take off her mother's ring and forget about it...I don't mean that she should accept defeat. That's not Beckett at all.

Beckett has always worked through her mother's case alone...Castle came in and dug around and circumstances have had both of them working some aspect of the case. When she was shot the three men in her life took up the sword...until Beckett got back and went at it like a bull in a china shop.
[/b]
I don't see her giving up on bringing those responsible to justice. [/b]

Unbeknownst to Beckett (at the present) Castle is working her mother's case ALONE (in another reversal/mirroring of story and character that Castle does so well)

It was only when Esposito came and offered her the tools to cope (and accept) her PTSD that she was able to come to terms with it...I think once the initial bomb has dropped and Castle's secret is out of the bag...he could be the one to help her like Esposito. It might take the focused energies of BOTH of them, working together, with Beckett not disappearing down the rabbit hole, to crack it wide open. The only problem she would face then would be if the tip of this pyramid of money, lies and murder is not taken out/down Castle's life could be in danger. He fears losing her again but she could actually loose him. (Heat Rises?)

I also have to say congratulations on being our 100th member happy and stopping by to actually chat with us here at Castle's Old Haunt happy

I really agree with the bolded stuff. I think we are on the same wavelength on this one. I really like your point about how her letting Castle all the way into her life opens the door for them to really work together on this case, which is their strength. happy
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tolkeinite

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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeThu Nov 24, 2011 5:20 pm

Beckstle wrote:

Let's just say don't think Marlowe has any intention of Beckett secretly sleep with Castle, pop up pregnant and become a shell of her former brillant self. Wink
. I certainly hope not Neutral , but BONES, (like every other romantic drama to ever FAIL EPICLY), was not destroyed in one or two episodes nor by one event. That "boom I'm pregnant" moment was certainly the final nail in the BONES coffin, but the decay began much earlier, going back at least to the 100th ep. if not the very beignining of season 5. Many fans (myself included) were too enamoured of the show to see it happening, but what really ruined that show was the twisting of the characters, the way the writers blew all of their weaknesses out of proportion while simultaneously obliterating everything that made them great in the first place. Brenan was always socially awkward and a little closed off, but she was so idealistic and so driven by her ideals of justice and her love of life that that her personality problems just made her positive characteristics all the more amazing. But the writers ended up highliting those problems so much that they turned her into a pathetically anti-social idiot-savante, with none of that engaging drive she used to have.
The same happend to Booth, whose compassion, delecacy, and fierce loyalty to those he loved was only accentuated by his frustration at not being able to get Brenan to let him in. But the writers filled him with so much bitterness and self-pity over being rejected that he became cold and arrogant. And all this happened long before "the night".

And that is my fear, not that h the show will jump the shark with Caskett romance, )in fact I'm still slightly worried that they'll hold off for too long). What really concerns me, though, is that they'll pour so much into exploring Beckett's issues and having her struggle to overcome them that they'll forget all about what it was that made Becket amazing despite her trauma, and by the time she's done with her "character growth" she won't be the person Castle fell in love with, and whatever relationship they end up having will be empty.

Happy Thanksgiving
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeThu Nov 24, 2011 7:04 pm

I understand the fear, believe me. I do think that the signs of that kind of stuff shows up in the writing before it goes completely to hell. It usually involves major resets where issues that have already been resolved are brought back up as if they'd never been dealt with. Traits introduced without explaination, plots brought up in an episode never to be heard of again, and a seemingly deliberate amnesia of characters' past histories and relationships. The only touch of this kind of thing that I've seen thus far is in Beholder, and believe me, I AM watching how Rick Castle is being protrayed with a more critical eye now. Right NOW, Beckett's behavior and where she is at seems completely plausible and in line with both her history and who she is. For instance, she doesn't want to be beaten or conquered - including by PTSD. The irony is in order to BEAT PTSD she has to surrender to having it. Esposito's line about a weakness being a strength I think may be a new theme emerging: that some of what Beckett has seen as weakness if she allows it, can become her greatest strengths (like having Rick be a larger part of her life.)

Now if she starts becoming less of a cop, or a less driven personality, flags WILL be up for me. Even in this current place, I see Kate as still passionate and determined to solve an issue.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING! (If you happen to be American. Very Happy)
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dstorm
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeThu Dec 08, 2011 7:05 pm

For those that were questioning Beckett's scar location, I found this BTS picture that confirms it was on the side. Kind of gross...

https://i.servimg.com/u/f42/16/82/25/30/aglxlu10.jpg


04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Aglxlu10


Last edited by dstorm on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion   04.09 KILLSHOT - discussion Icon_minitimeThu Dec 08, 2011 10:05 pm

@dstorm, I bumped this only because I couldn't get the link you posted to work...
Beckstle wrote:
Here's a better look at that side scar! (LOOOVE Tumblr! Very Happy) It's a big ole angry raised slash of red along her side.
tumblr/kate's scar

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