4.05 EYE OF THE BEHOLDER - Discussion

What did everyone think?

Post all your post episode thoughts here...

Wow... nothing here to spoil me?? Where are you guys

I ended up not watching the episode. From the sneak peeks and the commercials I figured no new information would be given... I already know how Beckett feels about Castle and seeing that Castle and Martha have had a memory lapse (IMHO) I felt like skipping this one :/

Right.

I've had some sleep, I've been rained on & blown to work...and rained on & blown home...and now I'm sat behind my computer screen typing this to you (before I go and wash my hair so that tomorrow I won't look like I've been rained on & blown all over the show...I will look marginally presentable)

Will I hold a gun to your head and make you watch this episode? Nope.
Do I think you're missing out on something if you don' watch it...I kinda do...yeah.

So, if you really don't want to sit through the entire episode I'll bring you the highlights (with the help of xMusiicxAddictxx on YouTube!)

Theme of the episode?
I am NOT going to say Jealous Beckett. I don't think she really was jealous. At the end of the episode she's actually civil to Serena. Sometimes I think Beckett masks admiration (or the recognition of some of her character traits in another) with raging animosity. If in doubt see Season 1.

So...for me the episode all hinged on this quote (my official quote of the episode)...

Beckett's shrink: Kate, what are you really scared of? That he won't wait for you?...or that he will?




I can't get a handle on what Martha's trying to do here? Is she trying to force the moment to it's crisis? Or is her good time gal roots showing through?
Love the scene in the precinct right after as well. You see Beckett is her own worst enemy! She can't say to Castle "Don't go out with that woman" or "Why would you want to go out with that woman?" without revealing her hand. Without putting some more of her cards on the table...and without revealing that she saw Castle's cards on the table laid out for the world to see. This is what happens when your a liar and your pants are on fire! Them fiery liar pants make you squirm.

Also, is it just me or is Beckett practically pushing Castle into Serena's arms? Is she doing it to test him? Castle's WAY confused over this? Beckett likes him, she has a wall that needs coming down...he thinks he's the man with the wreaking ball...now she's shoving him away form her wall and into someone else's path? (See my previous argument on liars and their flaming attire)

Now peeps...you really should watch the entire thing to get the gist...but here is the end scene as well:



See? Perfectly civil after all that snarling. The lady IS good at her job. She even sets Serena straight about Castle's character...and then leaves them alone!!!??? (Love the giving of coffee in this scene. Castle gives both ladies a cup of coffee...Beckett takes hers but Serena hands hers back untouched. Coffee is love/comfort/affection.)

My foot Castle never went out with her coz he couldn't afford it!
Test passed. He's waiting. He gets a burger.

(I love Beckett's shrink. He's so calm...and infuriatingly RIGHT! )

Beckstle wrote:

Oh, I am not ALONE! TVovermind is asking the same darn questions I had about this episode. (I was really thinking I was nuts!)
www.tvovermind.com

PS - Fairytales, you might want to comment on this one (we're the minority whip! )

I found and replied to your statement and gave you a thumbs up because someone gave you a thumbs down.

I will never understand people :/ Why does "I love you" not meaning anything to anyone? Worse yet, why is it OK to be flaky? They want to throw Demming in the face of people who disliked this episode but they fail to realize I would say the same thing if the it had been Kate to *say* "I love you" then go after another man so quickly.

I'm actually have a Bones pessimistic feeling right now. Did they sleep together? I still haven't watched. And I'm not sure that I will. I saw everything I needed to see IMHO.

Thanks for the recap Tink. I can't watch just yet... maybe in a season or two. I just really really do not appreciate how fast and ready Castle was to chase after another skirt. Even if in the end he decided not to see her.


Today is a horrible rainy depressing day. And this weeks Castle is NOT helping.

fairytales wrote:

Beckstle wrote:

Oh, I am not ALONE! TVovermind is asking the same darn questions I had about this episode. (I was really thinking I was nuts!)
www.tvovermind.com

PS - Fairytales, you might want to comment on this one (we're the minority whip! )

I found and replied to your statement and gave you a thumbs up because someone gave you a thumbs down.

I will never understand people :/ Why does "I love you" not meaning anything to anyone? Worse yet, why is it OK to be flaky? They want to throw Demming in the face of people who disliked this episode but they fail to realize I would say the same thing if the it had been Kate to *say* "I love you" then go after another man so quickly.

I'm actually have a Bones pessimistic feeling right now. Did they sleep together? I still haven't watched. And I'm not sure that I will. I saw everything I needed to see IMHO.

It's nowhere near as bad as Bones, although some fan reactions may remind you of it. Castle indirectly chooses Beckett, and NO, they don't sleep together. Castle's a bit of a jerk about the blonde. I've Knockout, etc hadn't happened and if Castle hadn't changed so much I wouldn't have a problem with it. What gets me is the excuse that he wants her for a character in one of his books. HELLO?! How did start his involvement with Beckett?

Castle indirectly chooses Beckett? :/ So I'm guessing blondie at least doesn't shoot him down but he shoots her down? And the part about the book is sick :/ If I were Beckett this would be a neon flashing sign that says RICK CASTLE: PLAYBOY FOREVER.

fairytales wrote:

Thanks for the recap Tink. I can't watch just yet... maybe in a season or two. I just really really do not appreciate how fast and ready Castle was to chase after another skirt. Even if in the end he decided not to see her.


Today is a horrible rainy depressing day. And this weeks Castle is NOT helping.

I don't think he did chase after her.

He was intrigued by her character (Castle is fascinated by powerful or dynamic women it seems) in much the same way he found Beckett intriguing in Season 1 (but without wanting to base an entire book on her...Serena would have just been a character in the series. Like any one of Castle's other male/female sources that end up inspiring fictional counterparts) Beckett actually pushes him towards Serena...almost like she wants him to fail...

Beckstle wrote:

fairytales wrote:

Beckstle wrote:

Oh, I am not ALONE! TVovermind is asking the same darn questions I had about this episode. (I was really thinking I was nuts!)
www.tvovermind.com

PS - Fairytales, you might want to comment on this one (we're the minority whip! )

I found and replied to your statement and gave you a thumbs up because someone gave you a thumbs down.

I will never understand people :/ Why does "I love you" not meaning anything to anyone? Worse yet, why is it OK to be flaky? They want to throw Demming in the face of people who disliked this episode but they fail to realize I would say the same thing if the it had been Kate to *say* "I love you" then go after another man so quickly.

I'm actually have a Bones pessimistic feeling right now. Did they sleep together? I still haven't watched. And I'm not sure that I will. I saw everything I needed to see IMHO.

It's nowhere near as bad as Bones, although some fan reactions may remind you of it. Castle indirectly chooses Beckett, and NO, they don't sleep together. Castle's a bit of a jerk about the blonde. I've Knockout, etc hadn't happened and if Castle hadn't changed so much I wouldn't have a problem with it. What gets me is the excuse that he wants her for a character in one of his books. HELLO?! How did start his involvement with Beckett?

He tells that to Martha - not Beckett. It's why I'm annoyed with him, but Beckett can be still open to him: SHE doesn't know about it.

For the record, I don't think they're planning this kind of stall again. Every show gets one major pass - this is mine for Castle. It was stall/filler to get the plot in position for Caskett. So long as it doesn't happen again.

Beckstle wrote:

For the record, I don't think they're planning this kind of stall again. Every show gets one major pass - this is mine for Castle. It was stall/filler to get the plot in position for Caskett. So long as it doesn't happen again.

It won't happen again. That's the point.

I think BOTH characters are flawed in this episode. Neither can grab a duster and polish up their halo!

It's a bit like Season 2 eps 23 & 24 all over again. Beckett and Castle in their own separate bubble of feelings circling and wondering in isolation.

And YES Castle did say he loves Beckett. He does love her. But boy! Is she one difficult person to love!
(I think Beckett handles her envy/paranoia/jealousy like a man in this episode. At one point, if they were both men, I would have shouted "Oh, for Pete's sake, just whip 'em out, put 'em on the table and measure them and have done with it!" But it was two women...I don't know what you'd measure for that? LOL! ) YES Castle is distracted by Serena...a new marionette to play with.

But we can't park all the blame on Castle. Oh no. Beckett's to blame here as well. Did she say to Castle that she loves him? No. Did she even acknowledge that she heard him? No. Does she push him into a date with a woman that's interested in him? Yes. (Rather naughty on Beckett's part as well. What about Serena in all this? What if she had a genuine real interest in Castle? Only to discover writer and muse are embroiled in a lengthy game of romantic snakes & ladders?...Go back to robbing art, love. It's less hassle than these two! ) In fact Beckett gives him every opportunity to fall flat on his face (going to do some filing, my arse! )

Castle has his mother. Beckett has her shrink.
Both Martha and the shrink poke and prod at things that Castle & Beckett would rather they left alone.

Both Castle and Beckett are useless at communicating with each other over the things that really matter (unless they're shouting at one another, stuck in a freezer...or leaning over a person rapidly losing consciousness due to being shot...then they're remarkably forthcoming.)

Frankly they both need a good spanking after this episode (yeah...criticize all you want, I know whose peachy bum you are picturing right about now...) Or maybe just lock 'em in a room until someone gives and tells the truth!

Oh, I definitely would blame Beckett if Castle moved on but I would blame him too. Right now. It's too soon after the "I love you" to get this caught up in a woman that quickly. You might say intrigued but it looked more like full on lust to me. But I haven't seen the whole episode :/ So maybe I shouldn't talk but I'm going by the sneak peeks and the promo.

I wonder if I would be this annoyed if this episode had come up later in the season? It would be a good time lapse from the premier ... but only if Castle was still unaware of Beckett's dark secret. THis is just a random thought I just had.

Anyway, not a fan of this type of episode at this time in the game.

fairytales wrote:

You might say intrigued but it looked more like full on lust to me. But I haven't seen the whole episode :/ So maybe I shouldn't talk but I'm going by the sneak peeks and the promo.

This is about as "Lustful" as Castle got (of his own accord):



Then they all think she did it...



Then Beckett uses Catle as bait.
Castle plays the bait date.
Then Beckett texts Castle to stall Serena coming back to the room.
Then we have the kiss.

Then we have Beckett...

Of his own accord? The kiss it out of him was funny though. He deserved that.

Oh, Beckett's not off the hook. She is STILL scared to deal. However, part of her being scared is something that AM has discussed at length and has been an issue from day one: When it comes to women Castle is known as a player. Two failed marriages, all over page six, signing girl's chests. The guy is close to 40 and that's his rep when they met. Over the years he's proven to be an AMAZING friend and person. He 's been there for her. However, that doesn't mean he'd be great BOYFRIEND material. Part of Beckett's struggle is she wants/loves someone that she thinks could very well break her heart - and cost her her best friend. It's why she tries to make the relationships that look so good on paper, work. On paper, Rick is a bad choice...but, the heart wants what it wants. That's Beckett's conundrum.

So when Serena is there and Castle is acting all season one, she's jealous, hurt, but also EXPECTS that from Castle. He has just negated the idea that perhaps he's changed. She not going to try and make him be be what he's not. If he wants to chase after his latest intrigue she's not going to tell him not to. It proves to her that Castle being "in love" isn't going to keep him from other women. It doesn't MATTER that Castle doesn't know she knows he said it. In fact, if she DIDN'T know, the whole scenario would be less of a big deal because there wouldn't be this knowledge of Castle's direct feelings. Feelings that apparently don't keep him from being drawn into other women.

What actually helps, IMO, redeem this issue is that doesn't give Castle an ultimatum or throw in his face that she heard what he said, and Castle DOESN'T pursue Serena. It gives Beckett something to think about. Yeah, Castle IS still a playboy...but perhaps less so than before. He is capable of walking away from offered candy that he REALLY likes...if there's something he wants more.

Still one of the least enjoyable eps for me...But I'll watch it again when I'm less drugged on allegry meds.

OK watched the clips above and it wasn't as bad as I feared but it still leaves me unsettled. Like an evil foreshadowing of what is to come.

Castle will tire of waiting.

And in comes another Serena Kay.

I REALLY hope Castle proves us wrong. I really hope so. There's nothing wrong with waiting and IMHO I think Castle knows he needs to be patient and that she was referring to him when "the walls come down". It was in the looks but then again, I fall into the danger zone of trying to read looks and read between the lines. I always get burned doing this. But I really do think he knows. So he'd better bloody wait :/ and Beckett had better stop "pushing" women at him. I did want to Gibbs slap her there for a moment.

Also, I was really caught up in the fact that the final outfit that woman has on wasn't a tight fitting evening dress ... I was kinda shocked. Cause each time I saw her she had on another shade of a short low cut little number. pffft. That's another thing that really irked me. :/ Maybe she was coming from a hot date, I dunno but to show up in THAT to do your investigating? Can we say pushing the sex card a little too much?

p.s. my new status avvie broke the forum! but man am I glad to be rid of that criminal suspect or whatever it was lol Although... two hot girls hanging on Castle? Do we need to see this *right now*? jk I still like the picture.

@fairytales - I fixed your Avatar.
Tink, I rewatched it without an IV in my arm. I do agree that it's not exactly jealous Beckett. The line that she DOESN'T say is "he's supposed to be in love with me." She seems more hurt & disappointed, and yeah, angry. Angry that she cares, angry because she thinks she knew better.

She's not pushing him to Serena. She thinks he's ALREADY THERE, and is trying to be a good friend.

What I didn't pick up the first time through is Castle's learning curve.
The man is, IMO, definitely interested. It's been alluded to in seveal episodes that the women in his books have ALL had basis in women he's had some kind of sexual involvement with. In the beginning he's definitely checking Serena out - and definitely NOT thinking about Beckett and how it might be making her feel. That first time out for a drink - Beckett is NOT what he's thinking about.

The difference is that he starts to notice Beckett's reactions. By the time he goes home to his mother he realizes there's a problem. He tells his mother that, "it's complicated." Unlike Nikki Heat, or Ellie Monroe, Serena seems to have no ulterior motive for being into him (that comes the next day when they think she's the theif. So why not take the opportunity. However Castle knows Beckett is lying to him about knowing what he said and is seeing her reactions to Ms. Kay, and all of Beckett's previous reactions. Despite what hasn't been said, I think Castle realized that what HAS been said, puts him IN a relationship with Beckett.

So, basically Castle is kind of screwed because he's put the possiblilty of a new relationship in motion - out of his playboy habits - but spends the second half of the episode realizing what it could cost him. Hence the line to Beckett about, "he can't afford it."

This goes back to my earlier post about the thing that redeems this episode is that Castle CHOSES Beckett. Beckett is surprised by this because everything in his behavior was the old Rick (reset) and the old Rick would have slept with Serena.

So, yeah, I still found having to watch the reset Rick annoying. Like, I felt Rick had dealt with stuff before and why are we doing it yet AGAIN? However, it did get to have Castle make a clear-cut choice that Beckett could SEE. It let Castle realize that what Beckett isn't saying wasn't nearly as important as what she's be doing and her reactions to him. It also gave Beckett another step on the ladder of trusting Castle romantically.

Still, I never want to see the Serena Kay character again, nor do I want another convenient Rick Castle character reset so we can watch him "grow" to his more mature place again. Like, enough with the checking out other women's asses (at least not when the woman you're supposed to be into is in the same room - Jeez! ) and leaving your partner without a thought to go follow the same chic who ass you were staring out around. Taking sides against your partner. With said woman, taking pictures with said woman wearing a sh*t eating grin, and leaving it on your phone and then flashing it so that the woman you're supposedly in love with can see it. For the first half of the episode I just found Castle to be a complete idiot. Like, he's supposed to be in love with Kate?

I was so annoyed with the first half that I missed his dawning realization that a fling wasn't worth losing Kate. With Natalie Rhodes his reasons for saying no weren't directly related to Beckett's feelings, or fear of losing Beckett.

There was also the whole "over the top" character of Serena Kay. The whole theif with a heart of gold BS - try vigilante who breaks the law for profit. The woman was no Robin Hood.

So, the short of it Tink is I think you're correct in that the ep doesn't do lasting damage to Castle's character. The promos made things ALOT worse. However, I still didn't love it, and found it a plot device reset. I'm also not seeing that it was really necessary. Like next week things will be moving along like they were before this episode. Kate's doubts could have come up in therapy a dozen different ways - talking about what happened in Hereos and Villians and what that cop said to her or Castle pushing her more on what she actually remembers? Castle has already said he planned on helping her take her walls down, he's already COMMITTED to try and make things work with Beckett. So WHY did we need this episode with reset behavior? IMO we didn't. Sticking with Tvovermind - it's a B-.

I posted this on the ABC boards (I'm recoveringbonesaddict there and at the founding fathers)

When spoilers and episode titles started to leak out last month, I thought the theme AWM was setting for the first half of the season was "you can't put your life on hold indefinitely. There is always some outside force that comes at the most inopportune time to lay waste to whatever plans you made."

The holding pattern that Castle and Beckett settled for in the first episode is not working for both. They both famously claimed that it would be enough, but it clearly isn't. Both are unhappy, and this unhappiness is taking a toll in their lives (and US viewers). They know it, and we know it. This is why their interactions and flirtations do not seem to be connecting as they did before because it is meant to be awkward. If it didn't feel awkward and the flirting between the two felt natural, there would be no need for them to try to move forward. So, AM has created a situation where the characters and us viewers know something is not right between Castle and Beckett. AM knows the holding pattern is at fault, and Caskett has to break it themselves or have an outside force do it for them.

This is the reason why yesterday's episode and the one in two weeks are necessary. The possible love interest for Castle followed by the hostage situation will show Beckett that she really has no control over her future with Castle. If she waits too long, Castle might not be there for her. She either will lose him to another woman or have fate take him away from her. The next 3 to 4 episode arch is the beginning of her realization that she can not put her love life on hold indefinitely. She has to move on with her life. Castle too is waiting for Beckett. He is willing to wait for her as long as she needs, but he is not happy about doing so. Martha knows this. This is why she encourages him to go out on a date. She knows Castle's heart is Beckett's to lose, but she wants her son to break the impasse or move on. She knows the latter wont happen, but the former will not happen unless she puts a fire in her son.

I believe where we are heading for the end of the first half of the season is both realizing that the status quo is making them unhappy and miserable. They want more from the other, and they will therefore seek to break the impass. In the mid season finale, I expect Beckett to give Castle a subtle signal that although she might not be where she wants to be mentally she is ready to start something with him. Castle will see this signal and act. The second half of the season will have them try to start something with each other only to have the secrets they've kept from the other come back to bite them in the ass. I do however believe that at the end of this season, both Castle and Beckett will be of the same mind and at the start of their romantic relationship.

I decided to watch this episode... but my focus is gone. Opening scene and I am thinking Remington Steele because 1) it's an art gallery and 2) when I think of art thieves I think of Remington Steele. Then it cuts to the little gallery party and low and behold is Remington Steele co-star, James Read.

Seriously? Castle took a picture of them? On top of everything else about this episode, I say, Becket... MOVE ON! That irks me. Castle was more than intrigued but whatever. I'm very glad he didn't ask her out in the end. But I'm wondering if Miss Serena Kay realized that Castle was into Beckett or just noticed that Beckett was staking her claim? I don't think there is any way Serena Kay could have figured out Castle has a thing for Beckett because Castle spent way too much time not looking in love with Beckett at all! It irked me.

OK, the strangle hold was funny.

The elevator scene with the poor guy and the cops behind him... that was random... kinda amusing but random.

William Holt???? HAH! THat character should have been a woman! Another Remington Steele reference from me.

I know Remington Steele probably wasn't the only show to do "hide the art piece in the gallery" thing, but, uh, it did.

I still don't like this episode. IMHO the Nikki Heat ep last season gave us the same information here without it being tacky. And I call it tacky, because as I said, it happened too soon after the "I love you". Too soon.

P.S. why are they driving in the point that she's suppose to be hot? This actress might be pretty, but other than her love for trampy outfits, she's not any hotter than any of the other actresses in this episode.

P.S.S. Ok Serena Kay looks a lot better when she isn't trampy.

I'm glad that is over.

dstorm wrote:

I posted this on the ABC boards (I'm recoveringbonesaddict there and at the founding fathers)

When spoilers and episode titles started to leak out last month, I thought the theme AWM was setting for the first half of the season was "you can't put your life on hold indefinitely. There is always some outside force that comes at the most inopportune time to lay waste to whatever plans you made."

The holding pattern that Castle and Beckett settled for in the first episode is not working for both. They both famously claimed that it would be enough, but it clearly isn't. Both are unhappy, and this unhappiness is taking a toll in their lives (and US viewers). They know it, and we know it. This is why their interactions and flirtations do not seem to be connecting as they did before because it is meant to be awkward. If it didn't feel awkward and the flirting between the two felt natural, there would be no need for them to try to move forward. So, AM has created a situation where the characters and us viewers know something is not right between Castle and Beckett. AM knows the holding pattern is at fault, and Caskett has to break it themselves or have an outside force do it for them.

This is the reason why yesterday's episode and the one in two weeks are necessary. The possible love interest for Castle followed by the hostage situation will show Beckett that she really has no control over her future with Castle. If she waits too long, Castle might not be there for her. She either will lose him to another woman or have fate take him away from her. The next 3 to 4 episode arch is the beginning of her realization that she can not put her love life on hold indefinitely. She has to move on with her life. Castle too is waiting for Beckett. He is willing to wait for her as long as she needs, but he is not happy about doing so. Martha knows this. This is why she encourages him to go out on a date. She knows Castle's heart is Beckett's to lose, but she wants her son to break the impasse or move on. She knows the latter wont happen, but the former will not happen unless she puts a fire in her son.

I believe where we are heading for the end of the first half of the season is both realizing that the status quo is making them unhappy and miserable. They want more from the other, and they will therefore seek to break the impass. In the mid season finale, I expect Beckett to give Castle a subtle signal that although she might not be where she wants to be mentally she is ready to start something with him. Castle will see this signal and act. The second half of the season will have them try to start something with each other only to have the secrets they've kept from the other come back to bite them in the ass. I do however believe that at the end of this season, both Castle and Beckett will be of the same mind and at the start of their romantic relationship.

ip.


I agree with the holding pattern having to break, and and with Beckett seeing she can't put her life on hold. However, I also agree with fairytales that the whole "losing Castle to another woman" so soon after the swingset discussion, and the events of the last eoisodes before this one is a push way too soon on Castle's part. Castle's shift in behavior made little sense to me given the previous events. There's also the whole "women competing for men thing" which I posted an article about in the "if it please the court" section. No, Castle waiting around forever - no. But Castle saying he finally has hope because of the swingset conversation, trying to solve Kate's mom's murder - without Kate, so he can keep her alive - guessing that she may know he loves her, seeing the change in attitude over love and fate - only to nearly throw it away because some blond has a nice ass? It was EASY to throw the women competition thing in, but it was also a retread for Castle and, as opposed to being story/character driven, a plot device. Not as ridiculous as some other shows... but, I'd say it counts as AM's first yellow card. It doesn't throw him out the game, but I've now got my eye on the count.